<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">Hello Ben, <br>I can't read how do you want to make <span style="text-decoration: underline;">gvSIG OADE</span> sustainable for the future. Your answer 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are about gvSIG.<br>You can write on the gvSIG SVN, aren't you? Why do you need to fork off the code for gvSIG?<br><br>Regards<br>Jose<br><br><div><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">De:</span></b> Benjamin Ducke <benjamin.ducke@oxfordarch.co.uk><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Para:</span></b> Users and Developers mailing list <gvsig_internacional@listserv.gva.es><br><b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Enviado:</span></b> vie,26 marzo, 2010 19:17<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Asunto:</span></b> Re: [Gvsig_english] QUESTION gvSIG 1.9 (BN 1253) -- Future of gvSIG and Sextante<br></font><br><br>----- "José Antonio Canalejo Alonso" <<a ymailto="mailto:jacanalejo@yahoo.es" href="mailto:jacanalejo@yahoo.es">jacanalejo@yahoo.es</a>> wrote:<br><br>Hi Jose,<br><br>> Hello Ben,<br>> there are a lot of people working on gvSIG Project and trying to make<br>> it sustainable for the future. That's not easy but they make it<br>> possible.<br><br>Yes, I understand. I am one of them. I have dedicated a lot of time<br>to gvSIG because I am convinced that it is a great project (and has<br>some equally great developers and users, btw.) and I believe that it is the <br>first time an open source GIS is getting close to breaking the ESRI monopoly.<br><br>That's why I feel it is important to talk about anything that may be<br>going
wrong!<br><br>> Your sentence is not true: "we have an official version for use at CIT<br>> and branches for use by the rest of the world" . The official version<br>> of gvSIG is for use all over the world.<br><br>My expression was probably a bit drastic. What I meant to say was:<br>A lot of users are expecting gvSIG to run on Java 1.6, to include<br>SEXANTE, to run on Win7 and Mac OS X. When these demands are not<br>being met, even though it is technically possible to do so, users<br>start wondering "why?". If the answer to that question is: "Because<br>of some internal consideration at CIT", then that is likely to frustrate<br>people outside CIT. I think we can see this start happening now and<br>it is not a good thing...<br><br>Also, the way gvSIG is being developed very much to fit CIT workflows<br>increases the risk that users with very different data and workflows<br>will get into trouble. An example of this happened to us at OA
<br>(problems with the raster engine and affinely transformed rasters) and<br>was the reason why we had to fork off the code for gvSIG OADE 2010.<br><br>> How do you want to make gvSIG OADE sustainable for the future us an<br>> open source project in the true spirit of it?<br>> <br><br>I have worked in other open source projects before this one and<br>had a chance to study some of the dynamics involved, so let me<br>share some of my experience with you.<br><br>From my point of view, these are the most important things that<br>need "fixing" (a lot of overlap with Silvio's last message):<br><br>1. Publish an up-to-date and complete roadmap. So everyone can<br>see where gvSIG is going (and be ready to make adjustments if<br>there are good reasons being voiced by the community).<br><br>2. Complete English translations and communication (all web pages, <br>all documentation, all traffic on the bug tracking list,<br>source code comments, error
messages and GUI strings). Otherwise<br>this project will remain largely closed to non-English speaking<br>code contributors.<br><br>3. Open up discussion of new features and design. Let your users<br>share their thoughts about how to get features "just right". <br>It will give interesting perspectives and improve quality all over.<br><br>4. Open up the bug tracker read-only for everyone, but also<br>give ticket writing privileges to those users who would like<br>to go bug hunting and file reports directly. Urgent: switch<br>all communication on the bug tracker to English as soon as<br>possible. Essentially, this means external peer review <br>-> huge quality booster!<br><br>5. And finally, most importantly: release early, release often!<br>Don't worry about every release being perfect or even able to<br>run at all. People can always switch back to an earlier version. <br>But do give plain users a chance to try even small improvements <br>and provide
feedback on how a major release is shaping up. <br>This actually was done quite well on the way up to gvSIG 1.9 <br>which sometimes had a release every week (Ideal! Please let's <br>have weekly builds again!), but somehow no longer happens. <br>Note: this would also need to be done for extensions!<br>All we need is an automatic snapshot of the SVN binaries once<br>on a Friday evening.<br><br>Along the lines of what Silvio said: Some things to ponder over the weekend!<br><br>Have a nice weekend folks!<br><br>Ben<br><br><br><br>> Regards<br>> José Canalejo<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --<br>> José Antonio Canalejo Alonso<br>> CSGIS<br>> Email:<a ymailto="mailto:jose.canalejo@csgis.de" href="mailto:jose.canalejo@csgis.de">jose.canalejo@csgis.de</a><br>> Web: <a href="http://www.csgis.de" target="_blank">http://www.csgis.de</a><br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> De: Benjamin Ducke <<a
ymailto="mailto:benjamin.ducke@oxfordarch.co.uk" href="mailto:benjamin.ducke@oxfordarch.co.uk">benjamin.ducke@oxfordarch.co.uk</a>><br>> Para: Users and Developers mailing list<br>> <<a ymailto="mailto:gvsig_internacional@listserv.gva.es" href="mailto:gvsig_internacional@listserv.gva.es">gvsig_internacional@listserv.gva.es</a>><br>> Enviado: vie,26 marzo, 2010 16:32<br>> Asunto: Re: [Gvsig_english] QUESTION gvSIG 1.9 (BN 1253) -- Future of<br>> gvSIG and Sextante<br>> <br>> Hi all<br>> <br>> > About Sextante + gvSIG in the future... My opinion is that we will<br>> be<br>> > togheter, and there will be always a gvSIG+Sextante distribution. In<br>> > fact, we are planning a new 1.9.1 release to fix some of the more<br>> > anoying bugs, and we will try to put the latest Sextante release (if<br>> > it<br>> > is possible. There are some problems, for example, latest release<br>>
will<br>> > need java 1.6, and CIT (the public administration that pays the<br>> bill)<br>> > still have a lot of computers with 1.5, so we need compatibility<br>> with<br>> > 1.5. Maybe the solution will be to make 2 distributions, one with<br>> 1.5<br>> > and other with 1.6, I don't know).<br>> ><br>> <br>> Well, that explains something!<br>> And here we are guessing for months while gvSIG 1.9 still ships<br>> with Java 1.6 and can no longer include SEXTANTE...<br>> <br>> Sorry if this sounds a bit frustrated, but this is exactly the<br>> sort of opacity that will send external contributes running away<br>> if it keeps up (please see my more extensive comments below).<br>> <br>> > These are only my personal thoughts. The decision process is driving<br>> > by<br>> > a commitee, but there is always a possibility to make an<br>> "unofficial"<br>> > distribution,
like OADE [1] or the latest gvSIG portable (also with<br>> > Sextante, and with Vista and 7 compatibility (thanks to AI2, the<br>> > people<br>> > who is developing the 3D plugin), and with the collaboration of<br>> Víctor<br>> > to put Sextante, CSGIS, and some others (Jorge Gaspar, and my self,<br>> > for<br>> > example)).<br>> > BTW, there is another "flavor" in gvSIG for Mac, thanks to Agustin<br>> > Díez<br>> > and the people of AI2 (again) [3].... ;-)<br>> <br>> So now we have gvSIG 1.9, gvSIG 2.0 (no binaries yet), gvSIG OADE<br>> 2010,<br>> and the new raster driver binaries done by AI2. But how is a first<br>> time<br>> user supposed to understand what's going on here?<br>> <br>> This is exactly the problem with forking and why I hope version 2.0<br>> (or at least 2.1) will give us the opportunity to merge all of this<br>> mess<br>> into a consolidated
platform, again.<br>> <br>> If gvSIG is to be an open source project in the true spirit of it,<br>> then<br>> there need to be more frequent releases and there can be no exclusive,<br>> closed decisions by some committee about the design of the official,<br>> public and open source release. No complex code base has ever survived<br>> as an open source project in that way (look at Xara Xtreme for Linux<br>> for a horrible example; Netscape had to radically change its approach<br>> before it could turn into a successful open source project with<br>> Mozilla).<br>> <br>> In fact, if there is pressure on CIT to develop a version specifically<br>> targeted at its own workplaces, than *that* version should be branched<br>> off to include things such as Java 1.5 support. The way it is right<br>> now,<br>> we have an official version for use at CIT and branches for use by<br>> the rest of the world -- that's
the wrong way around from the open<br>> source point of view!<br>> <br>> There is no "payment" as such for users contributing to this project.<br>> All<br>> they can get out of it is recognition and the good feeling to have<br>> contributed<br>> to something greater. But with the way development decisions are<br>> currently<br>> made, I don't see that happening. Which makes me worried that we will<br>> lose<br>> user contributions.<br>> <br>> If CIT wants to get the *real* benefits from going open source, then<br>> it<br>> needs to adopt more of the open source mindset.<br>> <br>> Ben.<br>> <br>> ><br>> > Best regards, and keep going with your how-to manuals, and remember<br>> > that<br>> > the code behind all these releases is very, very simillar. Thanks a<br>> > lot<br>> > for your hard work.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Fran Peñarrubia<br>> >
gvSIG Team.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > [1] <a href="http://oadigital.net/software/gvsigoade/gvsigoade2010beta" target="_blank">http://oadigital.net/software/gvsigoade/gvsigoade2010beta</a><br>> > [2] <a href="http://www.gvsig.org/web/plugins/downloads/gvsig-1-9-portable" target="_blank">http://www.gvsig.org/web/plugins/downloads/gvsig-1-9-portable</a><br>> > [3]<br>> <a href="http://gvsigmac.blogspot.com/2010/03/big-news-gvsig19-working.html" target="_blank">http://gvsigmac.blogspot.com/2010/03/big-news-gvsig19-working.html</a><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Simon Cropper escribió:<br>> > > Hi,<br>> > ><br>> > > A recent post by Victor outlined the roadmap for Sextante.<br>> > ><br>> > > In it he indicated he intended to make Sextante into a library and<br>> > > allow various developers to assimilate this library into their<br>> > > projects, rather than
maintain a plug-in system which requires<br>> > > constant rejigging to ensure the bindings work.<br>> > ><br>> > > Surprisingly, despite Victor pointing everyone to OADE 2010, the<br>> > > developers of gvSIG (core project) were not goaded into a<br>> response.<br>> > ><br>> > > So I am asking... What is the position of the gvSIG Developers<br>> > > regarding Sextante (you have had enough time to talk about this)?<br>> > Are<br>> > > you planning to incorporate the upcoming library into gvSIG or<br>> will<br>> > > you let this plug-in languish? I suppose the question is also<br>> > relevant<br>> > > for the next version of OADE.<br>> > ><br>> > > I think this is an important question as Sextante elevates gvSIG<br>> > into<br>> > > a product that can be used in a production environment; without it<br>> > >
gvSIG lacks important basic functionality.<br>> > ><br>> > > And at a personal level, I am in the final stages of preparing my<br>> > > templates for my how-to manuals -- should I be writing my<br>> > > documentation for OADE 2010 (which incorporates Sextante) or<br>> > > gvSIG+Sextante or if the use of Sextante is uncertain, other<br>> > upcoming<br>> > > packages? I am also on record stating that gvSIG+Sextante is the<br>> > first<br>> > > FOSS GIS that I could use in a production environment. There is<br>> also<br>> > > an upcoming paper in OSGeo Journal to that elk. So, will these<br>> > > statements hold true in the future or will the gvSIG product fall<br>> > back<br>> > > to just the core modules?<br>> > ><br>> > > --<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Cheers Simon<br>> > ><br>> > >
Simon Cropper<br>> > > Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd<br>> > > PO Box 160, Sunshine, Victoria 3020.<br>> > > P: 9311 5822. M: 041 830 3437.<br>> > > mailto: <a ymailto="mailto:scropper@botanicusaustralia.com.au" href="mailto:scropper@botanicusaustralia.com.au">scropper@botanicusaustralia.com.au</a><br>> > > <mailto: <a ymailto="mailto:scropper@botanicusaustralia.com.au" href="mailto:scropper@botanicusaustralia.com.au">scropper@botanicusaustralia.com.au</a> ><br><span>> > > web: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.botanicusaustralia.com.au">www.botanicusaustralia.com.au</a></span><br>> > < <a href="http://www.botanicusaustralia.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.botanicusaustralia.com.au</a> ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> ><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > ><br>> >
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