[Gvsig_english] Disrespect

Sat Mar 27 12:42:29 CET 2010

Hi Ben, Jorge (community),
    I have null interest in perform or participate in a flame war. I 
felt that the tone of the criticism was not fair, and I decided to say 
things that I felt need to be said.
    About criticism: There's no growing without critics, so criticism 
it's not only needed, but desired. But a criticism that drives to some 
point. When someone says 'hey, you're not  behaving for common 
interest', but I'm seeing that he talks about his needs as common 
interest, I tend to be more exigent about the way things are being said.
    About lack of openness and project driving: I'm for sure more critic 
than you in this aspect. I don't want to make an explanation about my 
point, but an abstract could be: Big changes in project 
management/driving could be done before gvSIG could be considered an 
open project. It's free software, and collaborative. But not open 
because there's no openness in project decision taking, not transparency.

    Greetings
       Luis
Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas wrote:
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> On 27/03/10 10:18, Benjamin Ducke wrote:
>   
>>> a people at this project from the early times, that you words doen't 
>>> show appreciation not respect about all the effort that has
>>> successfully 
>>> carried the project from 0 to here.
>>>
>>>       
>> :-O What did I say that makes you think so?
>>
>> I have been advertising gvSIG everywhere I go over the last
>> 3 years. And I have put a substantial amount of work into
>> it myself by now.
>>
>> If you want this to be a community project then you must allow
>> criticism.
>>
>> I know this is difficult, but the idea about a fully open source,
>> community-driven project is that you give up "ownership" of it.
>> This will inevitably lead to people having devided opinions about
>> this and that and some arguments going back and forth.
>> That's natural. I think we are all aware of each other's efforts
>> and appreciate them. Please do not expect people to just take what
>> you give them and be happy and grateful about it. That would be nice 
>> (I develop software myself and know all about it) but it's an unrealistic 
>> expectation. The psychology of a community-driven
>> project is different. Shared ownership of a project means that
>> everyone feels they are entitled to an opinion about it.
>>
>> I have always felt very grateful about gvSIG and the fact that
>> it's available as open source. But as I put more and more work
>> into it myself I also have a growing feeling that I have the
>> right to voice my opinion here.
>>
>> Criticism is not the same as disrespect. Criticism serves to
>> deal with issues early on, when they can still be fixed and thus
>> avoid further damage.
>>
>> Believe me, the argument we are having here is nothing compared
>> to what will happen once gvSIG gains a larger base of external
>> contributors. If you think this is bad, then read some posts
>> on the Linux kernel mailing list.
>> There are projects where there's fighting about
>> every new button in the user interface -- and it works!
>>
>> I have had several comments off list about a perceived lack of
>> openness in gvSIG's development model. I am just the first one
>> to mention that openly on this list and thus probably the one
>> to get burned for it. But I belief it needs to be done, for
>> the benefit of gvSIG and its community.
>>
>> I hope you will understand that this is really not a sign of 
>> disrespect for gvSIG, the work that's gone into it and the people 
>> who have done all that work.
>>
>>     
>
> In my opinion you haven't been disrespectful, maybe too much
> enthusiastic on an small question mixed (if gvSIG is and old project
> or not) with a huge bunch of more important topics where we are
> probably quite sensitive.
>
> I mean, we try hard to be as much open as we can, dealing with
> everyday technical and organizational questions that sometimes are not
> really visible for most of you, so when someone do a joke or try to be
> funny with this kind of topics someone can feel bad.
>
> This is specially true for those that try to create the conditions to
> convert gvSIG in a sustainable project. So yes, we sometimes are
> sensitive with the value judgments made here.
>
> Oh my..., it's really hard to explain myself in plain English, can we
> speak about WMS or whatever????
>
> Anyway, I agree all your comments above regarding the necessity of
> criticism. I think we need criticism because it makes gvSIG better.
> I'm specially happy when someone says he feels he "owns" gvSIG because
> I feel the same. All the active users and develeopers here that spend
> their (weekend) time writing, promoting, blogging about gvSIG are part
> of the project. Without you gvSIG would be a dead project, and because
> of you I think gvSIG is a successful project and is here for a long
> time (at least the same as GRASS!!)
>
> Take care!!
> - -- 
> Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas
> gvSIG Team
> Tehcnical Steering Committe Manager
> http://www.gvsig.org
> http://www.gvsig.com
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